How does Thrasymachus use the art of shepherding as a counter-reply?

We can ask for an account of how we normally use the words 'justice' and 'just', a about our use of those words. But that is not what Plato wants, and indeed in this dialog the is not used by Plato, who instead takes aim at whatever the word 'justice' suggests to him, whether the words of a poet ( and therefore may be given most any meaning one likes) or of a Sophist who thinks he knows "what justice is" and with others.

At first, Thrasymachus definition of justice after passage 338c remains disputable.

In a similar way, I propose, according to Thrasymachus’ definition, justiceconsists in doing what is to the advantage of the more powerful (338c3).


[SOCRATES] And is not justice the specific virtue of man?

Justice, Thrasymachus states, “… is simply what is good for the stronger” (338c).

As always, the goal of the discussion is to discover the genuine nature of the subject at hand, but the process involves the proposal, criticism, and rejection of several inadequate attempts at defining what justice really is.


Lecture on Thrasymachus' View of Justice - YouTube

Then the irony is that the "Criminal Justice System" imposes a punishment on those who have been convicted (or simply accused) of breaking the laws -- but punishment is intended to harm the criminal, not to make him better. Indeed, according to that system, justice is what Polemarchus thinks the poet Simonides says it is: "To do good to friends and evil to enemies" (332d). Or, in other words, it is an injustice system.

A summary of Book I in Plato's The Republic

It is just that Nietzsche's theory in this respect makes the real uncomfortable, since they are often, for all their violent rhetoric, no more than timid, politically correct academics (i.e.

he makes Thrasymachus admit that the view he is advancing ..

If the Republic is an earlier work than , then I am perplexed to find the following remarks in the later work. "SOCRATES: And to delight in our enemies' misfortunes is neither wrongful nor malicious? -- PROTARCHUS: Of course not" (49d). For is that not the very view of Simonides, as that view is taken to be in the Republic?

Thrasymachus Definition of Justice in ..

And so according to Polemarchus, according to the poet Simonides "to do good to friends and evil to enemies is justice" (332d), but Plato argues that, on the contrary, "in no case is it just to harm anyone" (335e). And so on the one hand, there is the result of reasoning (in fact about concepts, but in Plato's eyes about reality), and on the other there is the result of reflection about what love demands: "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" ( 5.43-44). And it seems remarkable to me that should arrive at the same conclusion.

as the central element of Thrasymachus’ thinking about justice

Query: "a man does not become morally better by making his enemy worse" | "the benefits of living an unjust life". The addition of 'morally' seems important, because making others worse makes oneself worse as well: it does harm to one's soul (i.e. [cf. Xenophon, Memorabilia i, 2, 4]). Justice is not only a virtue () but more specifically a . Non-moral virtues (skills, abilities) say no more than how the man who is endowed with those particular virtues should live if he is to live in accord with the excellence that is proper to himself as an individual man; but the moral virtues such as piety, bravery, and justice say how all men should live if they are to live in accord with the excellence that is proper to man (mankind). [.]